Ep 138: 1) Celebrity Memecoins, Caitlyn $Jenner and Sahil Arora, the Memecoin Tinder Swindler 2) Personal feelings about Money

[00:00] How's your co-working space? I learned that the Malin is actually... [00:03] a furniture company. [00:06] That then expanded into co-working spaces, which just feels really smart to me. Very smart. This podcast is now sponsored by The Mallet. Brought to you by The Mallet. [00:15] Welcome to The Feelings Check-In, a feelings first look at the news of the week. Takes no one asked for on topics everyone's talking about. I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. The Boys Club podcast? No. No. [00:32] Just boys club. [00:34] I'm at the Mallon in Soho. If anyone would like to come grab a coffee, I'm here. So I've really been enjoying it, but I am looking for more of a studio setup, I think, on the on the podcast side. So, yeah, man, I see all these other podcast cut downs and all these people are in studios. [00:52] the podcast format for cut downs is, [00:55] is waist up. [00:57] Yeah. [00:57] Of someone in a chair... [01:00] in a studio with other people talking, which is [01:02] I don't think we're going to get there. I don't know that that's for us. I would love that. [01:06] I think we're more of an all-in kind of [01:09] vibe zoom window zoom window yeah [01:12] - Yeah, yeah. - Unfortunately. - Unfortunately. Okay, so. [01:17] This is Voice Club. I am Natasha, and that is Dina, and we are your hosts of this fun podcast. I sent a tweet out that performed pretty well yesterday about what this podcast is and about, and that tweet reads...

[01:32] Hey, if you want to learn about crypto, but make absolutely no money, I have an excellent podcast that I host weekly. And that is what we're doing here. There it is. Summed up. And that perfectly sums up actually today's episode. So what we do here is we break down like an emerging tech story from the week, AI, crypto, other stuff. And then we also, the second half of the episode is us talking about our feelings about our lives and our work and this business. [02:02] Two things happening in crypto. Dina, what is going on? So we're talking about the Caitlyn Jenner meme coin launch, but also Sahil Arora, who is the mastermind behind a lot of the celebrity sort of scammy shit coiny meme coin launches. So really interesting. [02:21] interesting stuff there. And then we talk about [02:25] Money. [02:26] money. Being a founder... [02:28] And the sacrifices that you make. [02:30] So... [02:32] Give it a listen. Give it a listen. [02:35] you [02:36] Hey, Natasha. So a question we get asked a lot is, what do you look for in a crypto platform? So let's talk about it. Well, Dina, I look for a secure, no fuss platform that I can dive into right away. That's why I love today's sponsor, Kraken. If you're waiting for the right time to get into crypto, Kraken makes it super easy and intuitive to get started. Plus, if you get stuck, they have an award-winning client support team that's available 24-7, along with a bunch of educational guides, articles, and videos to help you along the way. If you're ready to check out

[03:06] to kraken.com backslash boys club and see what crypto can be not investment advice crypto trading involves risk of loss cryptocurrency services are provided to us and u.s territory customers by payward ventures incorporated pvi dba kraken view pvi's disclosure at kraken.com backslash legal backslash disclosures [03:26] So we are going to be talking about [03:31] the tinder swindler of meme coins today okay let's go sahil aurora is his name [03:38] what's your level of comprehension in this story zero oh fun okay great okay so we're starting the story with caitlin jenner but that's actually not where his the sahil aurora story starts his story starts many moons ago but it's all come to a head really with the caitlin jenner with her meme coin launch so [03:56] Earlier this week. [03:57] Caitlyn Jenner. [03:59] Former Olympian, current parent of Kendall and Kylie. [04:03] Kardashian fame does she consider herself a parent of the other gals or not [04:08] I think a step parent. Step parent. [04:10] Okay. [04:11] Kim, Courtney, Chloe. [04:13] All of them. All the gals. And I think Rob, too, probably. [04:17] Okay, so Caitlyn Jenner launched a meme coin, which is ticker Jenner. [04:23] The launching of this token is kind of a story in and of itself. And we maybe could have spent the whole podcast talking about that. But basically on May 26th, she posted a photo. [04:32] that said, Make America Great Again, [04:35] We love crypto. Oh, my God. But it gets worse. It gets worse. United States of cringe. United States of cringe. With the bow on top was her. The photo was a handshake with Donald Trump.

[04:48] No, no, no. You know that she's like famously totally famously a Republican famously a Republican. So she's going all in on this like launch tweet, which is [04:59] just rage bait to the [05:01] 100th degree, but also kind of joy bait for a lot of crypto degen coin trader people who... [05:09] Lean that way. Okay. And then it has a pump dot fun link. [05:13] Okay. In that tweet as well. Pumped up fun. Fun. [05:16] if you've never come across it, it's basically [05:20] Solana token deployer where you can [05:23] create a token in like three minutes and for like $3 and launch a token really, really easily. So she included a pump fund link, which was a link to her token, Jenner. [05:33] Okay. So, [05:35] It's a Solana coin. It's a Solana coin. Okay. And that tweet goes crazy viral, 1.9 million views. People thought she was hacked originally. That's actually what I... [05:45] thought the story was. I thought she was hacked. Yeah. And it was AI, but it wasn't. It was not. It was not AI. So at first everyone's like, has she been hacked? Has she been hacked? And then a couple hours later, she posted a video, which was her... [05:59] in a bathrobe and she was kind of like, oh, my CEO of my company is doing such a great job with this meme coin. And then people thought that was a deep fake. They were like, oh, that's it. People were just unwilling to accept. I know this is all the things I saw. And someone was like, look at the hands. Like, are you an idiot? Look at the hands. And I was like, the hands look normal to me. By the way, this is me last night on TikTok watching a video that was so crazy. It was a woman.

[06:22] who was doing a deep read of the Kate Middleton bench video. And she was basically, it was, she was zoomed in on like the curl. Uh-huh. I think I've seen this video. Have you seen it? And she's like, the way that the hair is curling is, [06:35] is impossible is impossible yeah so and she's like you're literally in like one square inch of this video and she's like and saying all these crazy things anyway so that's where we're at people yeah that's that's where things are need j-o-b's so that's the launch of jenner one of my favorite things in this whole story is that [06:58] So she launched the token on the 26th. And then on the 27th, you see in that thread of the tweet, a disclosure, like a legal disclosure, where it was clearly like the next day where someone was like, hey, the SEC might have some issues with this. I have talked to in-house counsel and they do not feel good about the way this went down. And it's her current pinned tweet, which makes me feel like there's some escalation of the issue. But it says not all cryptocurrencies, tokens, coins or other crypto assets are... [07:27] because they're corrected but it's just basically like standard disclosure like this is not investment advice yeah exactly which is obviously so rich but the token does really really well it's so serious it's one of those things that's it's so stupid that it's like it's great okay which is the best meme coins i i understand that to be the formula yeah and it's [07:45] I saw a stat that was $100 million in trading volume in the first 24 hours. No. What? Just crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. It pumps. It's down now. But she's doing – it's like standard –

[07:58] meme coin playbook textbook stuff where she's joining the Twitter spaces, she's posting charts, she's doing all the like buzzy stuff where it's like more announcements coming soon. In fact, today when I was [08:08] doing research for this, she was like, [08:10] Twitter spaces at 8pm tonight. Huge announcement. It's classic shitcoin marketing. Okay. Also tweeting photos of people wearing like [08:18] pixelated anonymous masks all the cool stuff all the cool stuff all the cool stuff so then people start looking more closely at the wallets and the mechanics of all this and the beauty of an on-chain launch it's all there for everyone to see and the movement of the tokens and everything and they're like wait [08:41] something's awry a lot of these tokens that are going to this wallet address are being dumped and it's like is this a pump and dump situatione and then caitlin jenna like of course it is isn't it like i don't understand of course it is okay [08:57] Of course it is. [08:59] I suppose, ultimately, a pump and dump. [09:02] Mm-hmm. [09:03] on a longer time horizon. [09:05] Mm-hmm. [09:05] But I think this person, Sahil Arora, really [09:09] expedites that process okay where it's pumping and instant dumping it's all happening in the matter of hours and days and not perhaps a year i doubt that caitlin general will be committed to this project in a year and will probably have sold all of her tokens by in a year's time maybe not i mean i can't see her having a lockup of any kind then this person so here aurora comes to the forefront of the story based on the on-chain sleuthing based on the on-chain sleuthing and

[09:39] manager, CEO person comes out and is like, this person's a scammer because people start connecting the dots. And they're like, this person involved in this project. And they're like, this person has scammed us. And they go on the record and say- The Jenner team. The Jenner team. Yeah. And Seheil Arora, he's doxxed. So he's totally this person. And he's- [09:59] has an Instagram account, which honestly I'm kind of obsessed with. It's like, [10:03] performance art. I'm going to show it to you. Link me, link me. Let me just kind of do my best to give you a voiceover here. So a million Instagram followers. Oh, wow. And he's posting photos of, [10:16] on a private jet in front of a Bentley [10:20] with uh oh my gosh oh my gosh he's in dubai he's in dubai it's a photo of his watch watches oh man this is textbook this is text book yeah him like sitting on the hood of a car this is something that i've actually never maybe i'm gonna try it i'm gonna try it i'm sitting on the hood of a car i don't really understand it it feels so unnatural there's so many sitting on the hood of the car [10:50] It's fun. Here are his highlight titles. XO, just an XO. I don't know. And the photo is a picture of him like holding a steering wheel. Presumably showing off his watch. I would imagine that's... 100%. Drake, prayer hands. No more context needed there. The Weeknd. [11:06] Clubhouse. [11:07] And then like a bicep.

[11:11] which I imagine is a gym moment. Yeah. I'm sure we're getting some fitness. So if that gives you any indication of what this guy's into. But he gets... [11:20] He's getting that bad engagement. Like he's he gets serious engagement. But what's the what's the comment? What are people saying? Keep going, bro. Keep going, bro. Like a boss. [11:31] And then some people are saying like scammers, fraud, stuff like that. He's getting some of that, too. [11:35] Lindsay Lohan. [11:36] Oh, cool. High watermark. One of his captions, it's lights, camera, action. When you with us, it's a movie. [11:43] Interesting. Not my type, but... So this is your man, Sekeel. He's my man. He's your man, and he is... [11:52] Again, like Doc's, this is who he is. And basically it's revealed through the Caitlyn Jenner sort of press of all of it that this is not his first rodeo. [12:01] He has been involved in many a pump and dump celebrity adjacent pump and dump specifically. There's a thread, which I'll drop in the show notes, that has seven years of evidence. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Oh my gosh. We're not going to get into that. How have people not put the dots together on this guy? I don't know. There's an underserved market for celebrity meme point advisors somehow. And this guy's tapped in. He himself has said that he's worked with Lindsay Lohan. [12:25] Soulja Boy, Tyga, Neo, and then Liam Payne, which is such a funny addition to that line of One Direction fame, of course. And basically, people are putting it together because one of his moves is he'll do a presale. [12:38] And so it's basically like, here's this wallet address, send money to this wallet address. And then he never ends up sending the token.

[12:47] And also he is manufacturing the hype around the token and planning to dump the token as well. So like it's kind of a double layered cake of fraud. Nice. But also the people who are sending tokens and money to a presale wallet. Like there's something. This is kind of what I'm saying. Looney Tune about that as well. [13:02] I have a hard time feeling bad for anybody who is getting rugged from this project. I totally... I'm with you. I'm with you. What do you think is happening here? Totally. Totally. [13:14] Everybody's at the casino. Everybody here is at the casino. I totally agree. I feel like it's like if you are playing the game of unadulterated greed casino, you're [13:21] then you have to be at peace. [13:24] - You must. - Whatever. - You're not a victim. You're not a victim. - No, you're not a victim. And I think that arguably the bigger [13:30] and more mainstream these celebrity meme tokens become, the more regular consumers who aren't [13:37] across that sort of rule set they could be harmed and will be harmed for sure also it's absolutely terrible for the industry [13:45] The worst. The worst. To just wrap up the story, and then I want to get into the morality of it all, but... [13:52] Egy Azalea. [13:53] Mm-hmm. [13:54] Last night enters the chat. She appears to be running the same playbook that she [13:59] okay katelyn jenner was doing sakil was doing a pre-sale for an iggy token oh he was involved with her too well she came out and said that he wasn't but he did run a pre-sale and made about 200k from pre-selling this like that's how he's sitting on all these cars exactly but she's now launched another token that's like

[14:18] Mother. [14:19] token ticker token mother or something whatever it's kind of cool um i hate to say it but it's kind of a good idea oh you like it ticker mother is really funny yeah [14:31] All that to say that she's kind of running the same boy book. He made some money from her. She's now saying that he's a scammer and is not involved. Okay. And there's all these Twitter spaces about it, right? Everybody's getting on Twitter spaces. Everyone's getting on Twitter spaces. Yeah. [14:45] They're doing that thing. Yeah. Celebrities, meme coins. Yeah. On a long enough horizon, it does feel like everyone is a pump and dump. That said, the hyper financialization of social media, of everything is here. And yeah. [15:00] I don't know that policing it and putting this moral layer on it is useful, honestly. [15:07] Yeah. Okay. So I'm just on Twitter now. I'm looking at the Iggy Azalea trending. She's trending. And I have to say, mother is, it's quite an explicit situation we have here. It is quite intense visually. [15:26] So that's... Describe one of the posts that you're seeing. I just... [15:30] One is like an ass shot... [15:34] for sure, in, like, little Disney shorts, followed up with another ass shot in, like, a... [15:40] spandex, like a workout. [15:43] short. Another one is her and her car flipping off the camera and the language, the text associated with it is, don't disappoint your mother, dot, dot, dot. And then what seems to be an address, a wallet address,

[15:55] So, you know, [15:57] It's a little bit adjacent to, do you know of the fetish? [16:02] where [16:03] i think it's which one are you going to the fetish i think it's i think it's mostly women i i don't i don't mean to put any gender on it any i think anyone could do it you're having a rihanna moment where she was like men women people anyone all the genders anyone can have this fetish which is finndom [16:22] Have you ever heard of Findom? I haven't. Dominatrix or like domination, but it's financial. [16:30] And so you're dominating men by making them send you money. Yes. One time I was at the, this is my exposure to this type of thing. One time I was at the US Open. [16:41] And there was a very beautiful woman. [16:45] with not a beautiful man. And there were some question marks as to their relationship. And she was texting the whole time. [16:54] And she had very big text. Like, you know, when someone has it. Juicy. Yeah. And I was sitting right above her. Our group was sitting right above her. And she was texting this guy and just like sending him links of things that she was like, you need to buy me this. You need to buy me that. And then while she's on her date. [17:10] He called her and FaceTimed her, and she picks up. And all you could see on his end, [17:18] This is so public. I was like, I can't believe this woman is not doing this in the privacy of her own home. She's out and about. And now we're talking about it on a podcast. I know. It's shocking. And his FaceTime, all you could see was...

[17:28] a fan the video was faced up so it was just like there was just a ceiling fan that was going on and she was telling him these are all the things that i need you to buy from me and he was like okay and then he was like i'll send you two hundred dollars and she was like i'm out with another man you need to send me a thousand dollars and he's like okay and that was going on and then the guy that was with her seemed into it too and i was like wow people are different than me there are different types of people in the world we come in all shapes and sizes it was a crazy [17:58] to that. [18:00] whatever you just said fetish yeah and i'd say like there's the the sort of sugar baby thing which i think is adjacent to it but findom is more explicitly like [18:08] much more aggressive it sounds like that woman was maybe going that that way it was quite quite quite quite aggressive and i will say our whole crew was quite scandalized i was like oh my gosh i'm just trying to have a a nice vodka based cocktail and watch the people play tennis yeah yeah yeah you did not consent to i did not consent to that i was like i'm scandalized well no judgment everyone can be what i'm into whatever 100 percent of 1000 so i i i make their judgment but i will

[18:38] this sort of sexual mother send me I don't know there's something about it that feels totally fandom ish which if that is your marketing strategy then go off [18:48] go off iggy wow what a unserious week on the crypto side of things thanks for filling me in totally [18:59] Thank you. [19:00] It's time for a more open, inclusive, and transparent financial system. A system that serves nearly everyone, everywhere, all the time. That's why we love today's sponsor, Kraken. Kraken is a crypto platform that provides a super simple on-ramp to the world of crypto with a 24-7 support team. Crypto transcends physical and imaginary borders. No matter where you are, you can send funds easily and quickly to almost any part of the world. Plus, forget about waiting times and waiting lines. You can send, receive, and trade crypto anywhere near instantly. [19:30] B at kraken.com backslash boys club, not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. Transfers to a third party are not available on Kraken. Cryptocurrency services are provided to U.S. and U.S. territory customers by Payward Ventures, Inc., PBI, DBA, Kraken. View PBI's disclosures at kraken.com backslash legal backslash disclosures. [19:51] Feelings? Let's get into some feelings. I feel broke. All that meme coin chat. All that meme coin chat. Yeah, we've had a call with a friend [20:01] Yesterday. [20:02] And [20:03] She's a very talented person, so I'm extremely happy for her.

[20:08] But she's not working right now. And she was like, oh, yeah, I'm just, like, trading. Just, like, living off my trades. I was like... [20:15] Living off your trades? Yeah. One does that. Built different. I was like... [20:22] Um... [20:23] Do you mean like buying and selling salon on corn face? Like, what are you talking about? [20:29] And I just feel really confronted by the fact that I work in this industry and I feel... [20:34] not [20:35] wealthy and not even wealthy just like [20:38] feel like literally broke and there's tentacles to that feeling and we've talked about it so many times but it's like [20:44] There's decisions that you and I have made about the investments that we're making back into this business, which the reality of that means that we pay ourselves less. And the reality of starting a business means that you already take a huge pay cut from what... [20:58] you could make in the open market. [21:01] And... [21:02] So there's that around like being a founder, having been a founder for so much of my career. [21:08] And, [21:09] feeling as you get older... [21:12] that that only compounds because like your wealth is literally not compounding and you're not making [21:19] as much at every single month. It's like you could be making twice or three times as much as I'm currently making and that [21:26] means buying an apartment when I'm 45 or not buying an apartment when I'm 40. The realities are like, [21:31] Right there. [21:33] So there's the long term. [21:35] choices around being a founder and [21:38] choosing this life.

[21:39] Then there's the short-term stuff, the meme coins and the market pumping and... [21:44] dumb shit that I [21:46] don't know how to do and I don't have the [21:50] emotional... [21:52] spiritual, cerebral capacity. [21:55] to try... [21:56] to do it. [21:57] But it's like annoying because then you're around all these people who... [22:00] you know, it's just tough. And I'm really living on a budget these days, majorly, majorly on a budget. And [22:08] I feel the restraints of that and it feels bad to like be mid-career. [22:15] And [22:16] feel broke. [22:17] Totally. [22:18] that's my feeling and it makes me upset i feel upset about it and i feel like that's the reality of [22:25] being a founder, that's the reality of being a bootstrapped founder, that's the reality of making decisions for the benefit of your business rather than the benefit of your day-to-day. [22:33] And I am feeling the fatigue of that. [22:36] Yeah, I think with founders and pay cuts and that monthly reality of looking at what you're bringing in, [22:45] because you're investing in your business or investing in your team or whatever it is and not paying yourself less. [22:50] And comparing that to your open market rate and like that, [22:54] every month you're looking at that. Like you said, like I I'm looking at it every month and I'm like, okay, there's [22:58] Exactly. It's not compounding in the way that it would be if I was on the open market and had a job. And I wonder, so much of the conversation around failed startups is around... [23:08] the business...

[23:10] not finding product market fit and I'm sure that's true most of the time. But I think there's also a [23:15] silent... [23:17] but mighty group of founders who... [23:22] just can't keep making that financial decision around taking less than their market rate and just get to a point where it's like, I, for whatever reason, have to earn more money. And [23:34] means the cash situations no good and so [23:39] I... [23:40] just have a lot of compassion for other founders or [23:43] or sort of early teen people who might be listening and [23:47] Feel that. [23:48] Yeah. [23:49] And because I do. Yeah. [23:51] And [23:52] you have an idea and you love your idea and you fall in love with it and you fall in love with your business and your company and your startup and [23:59] Nothing feels more painful than [24:01] having to [24:02] wind it down and I know that because I've had to wind down [24:05] startups before and [24:07] Yeah, I don't know. The reasons... [24:09] for that. [24:10] are sometimes obvious and they're sometimes not obvious and for for like the financial stuff it [24:14] personal finance stuff it feels harder to talk about yeah because it feels selfish yeah i also think just like most people are very uncomfortable talking about money [24:24] I [24:25] don't subscribe to that lifestyle. I think financial stress is... [24:31] so real and [24:33] I think [24:34] most people [24:36] Honestly, no matter... [24:37] where you are. Like there's a real spectrum of where you could be

[24:42] how you [24:42] much you could be making where you are financially and financial stress follows everybody in some way or another unless you're Jeff Bezos and so I think that that is [24:53] is universally relatable even outside of i think being a founder it's obviously compounded with being a founder and i think [25:00] what also it brings up for both of us is [25:04] you're doing that and you're making month over month year over year sacrifices for your bottom line for yourself or for your family with the belief [25:14] that [25:15] you will have an exit and a windfall that will make it so much more worth your time and energy and sacrifices. Because at the end of the day... [25:24] it's a bet that like [25:26] Thank you. [25:27] And I think for us, I, for the first time, have started, not because I don't want to do this anymore or anything like that. I think Boys Club is going really well and there's, like, a lot of momentum and it's really exciting. And, like, with that, though, it's also like, okay, what... [25:41] Is. [25:42] the exit of this type of business. I actually really don't [25:48] No. And I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about that. I think because it is bootstrapped, it just feels very different. Like you're not answering that question when... [25:55] when you're raising capital. [25:57] That's so much a part of the conversation. [26:00] And when it's moostrapped, you just don't have to have... [26:02] that same mentality from the beginning. And I think you and I have started to feel the real financial pressure and reality of it for our lives and then started to be like, okay,

[26:12] well it's a bet on the future it's about on this business that we really believe in and i can see it [26:17] see Boys Club like winning in a major way. [26:21] And then I'm like, okay, when that win happens... [26:24] What's the math on it? What's the math on it? Yeah. And what are the nuts and bolts? I totally agree. Am I buying an apartment or am I not buying an apartment? Yeah. I always feel whenever I'm on a panel or something and. [26:35] or doing a podcast interview or something like that, and someone's like, "So what's the long-term vision for Voice Club?" I'm always so annoyed with that question. I'm always like, "Just please." [26:43] Let me live. And I'm annoyed with that question because I can't answer it myself. It's no fault of the interviewer or anyone else. It's totally a projection of me being like, well, I'm a bootstrap business. I'm just figuring it out every day and trying to chase the things that are working and do more of that and do less of the stuff that isn't working. And that's true. It's truly what we're doing. But I think that I need to look at why I get so annoyed at the questions because I don't know. And having a sense for that, I think, [27:10] is useful in these moments where you're [27:12] we're looking at the math of the trade-offs that you're making every month or every year [27:16] and you're like okay well this is this is the game that i'm playing the bigger game that i'm playing this is bad that i'm playing and this is like if it went really well how it could look if it went okay how it could look and if it didn't go well this is how it could look and like yeah just being really looking at that very soberly i think is what both you and i are wanting to do right now and it's hard when like you don't have a vision for what that landing could look like and i think it speaks to really transparently our inexperience with media business like we never [27:40] set out to do this. Totally. And we set out to have, like, a cool, interesting business around Boys Club, but then the media stuff we felt ass backwards into. So I just feel like

[27:51] the work that I feel present to is like starting to, again, not because we're trying to exit and not because I want to sell this business or anything like that, but for my own knowledge and understanding of like what could be the financial reality if this goes really well, or medium or whatever, it feels like there's some conversations that we need to have with people much more experienced about what the opportunities are for us both. So anyway, boysclub.eth, if you want to send us some cash. I'm like, we're going to start a Findom business. [28:21] So we're getting started here right now. This is our big launch. [28:26] I hate that. [28:29] Redact. Redacted. Okay. Thanks for listening. Appreciate it. [28:33] *outro music*